Oral History Program Heidi Harwood Interviewed by Breauna Mack 4 June 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Heidi Harwood Interviewed by Breauna Mack 4 June 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Harwood, Heidi, an oral history by Breauna Mack, 4 June 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Heidi Harwood 4 June 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Heidi Harwood, conducted on June 4, 2019, by Breauna Mack. Heidi discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Sarah Storey, the video technician, is also present during this interview. SS: Today is June 4, 2019. It is approximately 1:03 PM. We are here with Heidi Harwood. Breauna Mack is interviewing her and Sarah Storey is recording. Go ahead. BM: Ok, when and where you were born? HH: I was born in Salt Lake City. 11/2/59 is my date of birth. So, we actually lived in Tooele, but I was born in Salt Lake. BM: What brought you to Ogden? HH: Um, well, when I was young my family travelled around a little bit, but we were always Utahns. And my mom got her teaching degree and came back to teach. We’d been in Montana and came back and I’ve not left since third grade. BM: And how’d you end up in Montana? HH: My dad got a job, you know. But my mom had four little kids and she was... she was ready to come back to Utah, ASAP. And we lived in Billings where there were no mountains. It just was the worst weather, and she just didn’t like it, so 2 we got back as quick as we could. BM: When you were a young girl who were some of the women you looked up to and why? HH: Well, of course, my mother. She became a single mom early on and was a school teacher and was still going to school, getting her Master’s and working a part time job because she had four of us. And... everything I know I owe to her. My grandparents, her parents, my grandma was a very strong female as well, so. You know, all educators, everybody had their college degrees and so, we knew it wasn’t are you going to school, it was where are you going and when are you going to finish? You know, it was never a question of not finishing... so I just had great role models as far as education and how to work, how to cope, how to take care of your kids. That kind of thing. My mom, really, is my star. BM: How do you think the role of mothers has changed? HH: Oh. So much. I feel that women have to do everything. I mean I think that they need to do everything, they need to get their education, they need to work outside the home, because we are so important to our communities and I see it... I see us doing a little bit of everything. I’ve done that and it’s been very fun. So I’ve had a good time being a well- rounded female. BM: “Can women have it all?” What do you think about people asking women that question? Women were in the home taking care of the children and now it’s changed to women having careers and are still mothers. “Can women have it 3 all?” Why they don’t ask men that question even though they’re more involved? HH: Well, I would say that men really don’t know what “all” is. They’ve been, they’re out in the... you know, working, bringing home a check, while the mom is probably working too, and doing everything else. I think we’re just better multi-taskers, because of children, or because of jobs. You know, not all of us have kids, but it certainly teaches you multi-tasking and how to get everything fit in a day. I’ve watched my mom, you know, things like, you start the wash, you start breakfast, you change the wash, you get in the shower, I mean it just goes boom, boom, boom. And women can have it all because we’re organized enough to have it all. BM: What were your career options once you had your degree? HH: Well, I got my K-12 teaching. So, I had elementary through business education, and I was about 28...it took me about ten years to get out of college, to get my degree. But I still felt like I was too close in age to the kids that were in high school, I didn’t feel like I had any command or anything, and I also found out I hated to be captive in a classroom. I had no idea. So, I had bartended, I had cocktailed, I had waitressed all the way through college. So I said to my partner, we’re going to have to do something else. So we did. I have The City Club and Brewskis. BM: What were some of the challenges you faced while obtaining your degree? 4 HH: I would say, I think one of my biggest challenges was, I was ready to do some other things besides go to school. So I was pulled to the working force, I was excited to do that and get away from school and get away from home and those kinds of things. But I knew I needed to finish, I’m a good student, and I enjoyed school, I was always, you know, top of the class and, so—I didn’t have trouble with money or anything like that, I was fortunate, my family was helping and I had a few grants along the way, so I didn’t really feel like I had... I think just wanting to try other things was my biggest hurdle, and not really wanting to settle in and finish school, you know. I was ready to try something different. But, eventually finished. BM: Where did you go to school? HH: I went to Weber State. I actually kind of went around the state, and my mom’s like, “Well, where are you going to finish?” And I said, “Well, why not Weber State,” because that is absolutely a great education, close to home, walkable. I loved it. So, I did spend my last two years here. BM: What was your first job? HH: My first job. I was a hostess at Bratton’s Grotto over here, it was on 33rd and Harrison. And we all worked there. My mom was, that was her second job. She was waitressing at night, a few nights a week, to bring in enough money to save all of us. I started as a hostess there and then eventually became the head chef. Instead of waitressing, I went to the cooking side of things. We had a new family take over the business and they didn’t have anybody to... and I had watched 5 enough that I just kind of stepped in for six months. So that was my first.. my first career move was Bratton’s Grotto. BM: What was your motivation to go into your chosen field? HH: Well, you know, family. We’re educators. I’m glad that I got into the business end of things, because it helped me a lot in my business life. So I was glad I did the business education piece. And it was just as ... word processing was coming up, I mean we had these computers. When I think back on... I mean, no one even really knew what a.... it was like “What are we doing?” You know, as you put it in on the screen with the green ink, it’s like “Oh my goodness.” So it was really fun, because it was right at the beginning, it was in like ’86, when it was really coming along. You know, the business department here was wonderful, um, Dean Talbot and a few of the others, you know. Had a great time. BM: When was there a time that you were brave at work? HH: Brave at work? Does that mean like my career or does it matter? I’ve been really brave because I’m in the bar business in Utah. So I’ve had to be really brave. It’s a good thing we started when I was 32, because I was young enough not to be afraid of what was coming. It’s quite a... I mean, there are just so many rules and regulations and you better follow them, so I would say I’ve been really, really brave throughout my career, because of what I choose to do. SS: Do you have a specific example of something? HH: Well, I can say enforcement coming in and causing issues with us that weren’t really there. But to go in front of the commission, the Liquor Commission, you better have your big girl pants on and be really brave. I actually hired a lawyer to 6 help me with that because I had been scolded as an adult, for things as silly as someone didn’t have a name tag on or there wasn’t a label on that bottle of alcohol, or just, I mean, little picky things that you have to really put in a place. And that’s what I... I learned to put things in compartments, because I had to my daily, but I had this looming stuff from the commission that... that was really, not only did I learn a lot, but I, well, I learned a lot about myself at that point. Because I knew we were doing the right thing and I had to prove that. And I’ve had to do that many times in my career choice. But it’s a really fun career, we love it most of the time, so. There’s good with the bad. BM: As a woman, how do you define courage? HH: Oh boy. Courage is getting through the day. My wonderful son says that I don’t do anything partway. That I go at it. And I make sure that it’s done properly, correctly, because that’s what my business defines my life as. Everyone has to follow the rules and I have to follow the rules and I’m the leader and, so courage... courage is daily. I believe it’s a daily fight through what you’ve chosen to do for a living, how you handle you family, and... that’s really it. I know it’s a daily thing. And courage is, you know, I mean, we’ve lost a few really important people in the family. It’s being that person that people count on. And I have most of my family counts on me. My mom calls me the matriarch. She gave that to me a few years ago, she’s like, “Take it, please.” So I did. And everybody counts on me, so I must be... I must look courageous and that I can get things done, because that’s what I’m... that’s my job in the family. BM: How did you balance your responsibilities between the workplace and home? 7 HH: Very fortunate to have a wonderful staff, a great partner. He is... we’ve been together almost 35 years, and so when I was downtown, he was home with our children, and then we would trade places. And it... and I really had a great schedule, best schedule ever. Because if kids were sick, I was home, if they needed me at PTA, I was there. Just the best. BM: How would you define “women’s work?” HH: Women’s work? We do it all. I don’t think there’s anything that I don’t do, you know. Women’s work should be, you should just feel confident that you can do whatever you choose. You can. It’s possible. We’re strong, we’re as strong... probably stronger than men. I’m sure of it. Yeah. Like that. That’s what I would think. BM: How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influenced history, your community, and you personally? HH: Well, you know, not only were we fighting for women, we were fighting for Black’s at the same time. I still fight daily for all of that. I’m very civic minded, community minded. And I think you just have to get in there and keep fighting. Just like they did. I thought it was interesting, Susan B. Anthony said she didn’t want, 80 years from her time of fighting, she didn’t want to look anything more than just... it was the law. She didn’t want anybody to really know how hard it was, that it was just... it was our right and it should have always been. I thought that was really interesting. That she didn’t want the struggle to really be at the forefront of it. You know, we got it, we’re going to run with it, and we should treat everyone as an equal. 8 BM: Do you think that Utah is held back? HH: Oh yeah. I didn’t want a boss, but the Mormon church is my boss. This what it is, I’m glad I stayed in Utah because of my attitude. I’m glad I stayed in Ogden because it’s a little more, I mean, we’re a lot more blue collar and, and I enjoy that part of our community. But to tell you the truth, we just have to keep at it and do what we do every day. Utah, we are very, very different. I mean, we are like an island. A landlocked island. Those are the problems I’ve had with the Liquor Commission, because that it was Mormon based commission, and all of our lawmakers. So, yes, we definitely have that. But I try not to let that get in my way. I go ahead, I try to be brave, I try to be courageous, and I do my job to the best that I can, the older I get the better I feel about it. I don’t feel like somebody’s got their thumb on me, but I did feel that way starting out. And it was a little scary. Because they can make things up, they can come after you, they come after your licenses, they you know, I’m in a business that isn’t looked on as... top of the pile in Utah. But anywhere else, go to any state around you, and you actually feel like an adult when you get over the borders. It’s true! I share a driveway, we have a really fun pair of twin homes. And my neighbor is the Bishop. And we’re great friends. But that’s how I have lived my life. I treat everyone equal and I want everyone to treat me that way as well. And I do believe that as a member of the Ogden community, I’ve made a big difference in that. Just by treating people, especially my employees, my neighbors, and I mean my business neighbors too, everyone has the same chance, just do your best and let’s get through this 9 together is what it is so, yeah. SS: Do you mind elaborating a little bit about your businesses, how you got them up and running, you kind of touched base on it a little bit, but maybe just a little more detail, as far as being a female business owner especially. I know you and your husband do it together, but maybe some of the challenges? HH: We started, we opened in ’91 with the City Club and Brewskis came in ’94 and I had three others, but that was like... big business and that was never my intention, I always wanted to be small business. So we have the two bigger sized clubs. But as we started, you know, the banks weren’t really interested, I am the owner, I am the 100% owner—not interested in women or the type of business. We had some money, we pulled it together, we had a couple partners when we started, have since bought them out, but I always felt held back by my bank. We had a chance to buy the building early on and the bank wouldn’t.. that’s tough, those types of things are tough. However, I am the proud owner of two wonderful historic buildings downtown at this point, but my husband and I did that all on our own. Finally about —oh, what would it have been—three years ago, the bank did a consolidation loan because we’d bought a second building, but that was really the first time that I’d had any outside help, but my husband and I just, you know, put everything back into the account and just kept going. And I have to say, very proud of how we did it, but you know and so now everything is great and bills are paid as they come in, but it wasn’t easy. That first eight to ten years is a struggle. You get behind in payroll tax, sales tax... it’s easy to do because they are big amounts. So being in business for yourself is not for 10 the faint of heart, because there’s lots of times I lost sleep at night. But I remember someone telling me, “Ok, the IRS, they can’t eat you!” Ok, I’ll remember that the next time I get in there with the one table with the box of Kleenex on it, you know. But we did, we struggled, we had our moments. The kids were always well taken care of, we always kept insurance, always paid the help.... just hung on by a thin thread for a little while, but really... I wasn’t afraid, I just kept at it and here we are. Almost thirty years later. So fun. Is that good enough on that? SS: That’s wonderful. Do you feel that the bank was discriminatory against you because you were a woman and it’s female owned? HH: Yes. And I’d say, it’s a Utah-based bank. I’m still with them because I had a great a specialty banker step in with me, and that’s what they... they started to do that, because there’s so many different business on 25th Street, and I mean most all of them are Mom and Pop. They’re husband/wife or partner/partner, or three boys at Lucky Slice or whatever it is. And they realized that we have different needs or that we were in different types of business. Food and beverage is different and it can be different monthly, yearly. But we did have an executive banker step in and that’s when I felt like I was being listened to. So. And it was just... an evolution in the bank, they realized they had to, like women in business, women in banking, you know, we’ve come a long way, ladies. And I kept fighting for it and I feel... I’m treated as an equal at this point. But there were sometimes, and there was absolutely no reason for them to turn any of it down. And it was very.. it was very frustrating yeah. 11 SS: So when did they assign you a specialty banker? Like, how long ago was that, was it fairly recently? HH: That was in like the last eight years. And so we were, we weren’t really looking to buy a building until like three years ago until the one came up next to the City Club. And that’s when David stepped in and really went to bat for us, we got the big guys in the office with us and I said, “Look at this, look at this payback history,” you have to really, you have to fight for yourself. I mean, even in a situation like that where you feel like maybe you’re not quite qualified to do the talking, you can. You can do that for yourself and just lay it out. Like I say, the bank came up with some options that made a huge difference. SS: Did you feel discriminated against as a woman at all, besides the bank? Like as a female business owner, did you have any problems? You said they were knit-picky about certain things, the Liquor Commission. HH: Liquor Commission, yeah. I think the fact that 25th Street had such a history, and we came in and, thank goodness, City Club was on the second floor, still is, so we didn’t have any of the street problems, wandering up the stairs. Plus, we were private clubs at the time, so I think that, you know, we weren’t really, I don’t know, we were just in the right place at the right time. So that helped a lot. SS: As you were coming up, even before your business, you said now that you feel like you’re equal, did you in the past ever feel discriminated against as a woman, while becoming educated or while working? HH: You know, I think... I’ve always been pretty confident and in working positions I 12 never let anybody make me feel that way, and if I did, I got out immediately and that’s part of teaching, too. You know, I felt that way, I felt discriminated, you know, these men in the office and things like that. I thought, “Now wait a minute, he’s not going to tell me what to do.” And I have always felt that way. My husband doesn’t really tell me what to do. It’s not like out there making a mess of things, but I don’t ever... I’ve never really waited for someone to say a cross word to me twice. That’s like, “Oh, no, not going to do that.” SS: Is there anything else you’d like to add? HH: I don’t know, I think I should probably make sure you talk to... cause there’s a lot of wonderful women downtown, I call them my posse, and we have done some incredible things together, um the 25th Street Association was all volunteer for many years and we were all... you know, we met once a month and pulled off those events and I have a wonderful crew down there and you know what, I’ve just been so lucky. And I would say, you women out there, go for it. Don’t be afraid. Have courage and be brave and go for it. Cause it does work. SS: Would you mind elaborating a little more on your organization you just mentioned, the 25th Street...? HH: 25th Street Association. Well, let’s see, what year... it had always gone on, but it wasn’t... it was a group meeting just as business owners to talk about events within and what was going on and who was moving and who was moving out and... and so we had a checking account that was open for a very long time, but until Kym Buttschardt with Roosters—ok so they had Union Grill that opened the same year City Club did. So they were in Union Station and then City Club, and 13 then Roosters came along and we have I mean, even Cindy at the Kokomo helped for a while, and then of course Sarah Tolliver. She and her mom came down and did three businesses down there and Jo was, Jo was instrumental in our image, our branding, and things like that, but we all decided we were going to pull off—they had stopped doing the street festival, the great big street festival— so we decided that as a group, we were going to get together and start Harvest Moon. So that was our first event. We all put $1000 in to the account so that we could do it, but we met, we decided, we were just very, very tied to each other. We decided we were in the beer business out on the street, cause that’s how we made money to do our signs and the rest of the events that we tried. We were just committed to each other and making sure that we took care of each other and I mean, you know, I want that street full. Competition, bring it on. And we all felt that same way, so it’s for the greater good but it was basically women and Todd Ferrario. He was our helper, he was our muscle. And a smart guy at that, our treasurer and... we worked really hard and until about four years I was still having all the meetings at City Club and things like that, but we have morphed into the Ogden Downtown Alliance. We each have our little group still but we don’t run any of the events... and I’m feeling a little weird about that, they’re taking the heart and soul out of stuff. But I think that’s what happens as you expand, evolve, change, they don’t really have a dog in the fight. You know, when we were just out there on the street, moving the barricades, doing all that work ourselves. It’s been a great team and we still are a team, we can count on each other and visit with each other all the time and it’s been wonderful. 25th 14 Street’s been great, I have loved it so much. BM: Would you like to go back to the way it was before? HH: I don’t have that much time. I used to run Harvest Moon basically by myself. Once the girls, once Sara got like the CVB job and Kym is kind of more over stuff than in her places—I’m still in my places every day for a couple hours, you know, just to check on everybody—but I know it can’t go back, I feel... I mean, like the car show’s Friday and I’ve got a couple people who were very upset last year, and I sat with ODA and said, “These are the people that have supported these events for 30 years, and you have to be careful how they are treated and if they have...” I mean, I’m always, I bend over backwards for my customers, my people down there because that’s... they need to feel important enough to come back. And that’s what we’re kind of losing in the big picture and I don’t like that. Now if I step back in, and I told them I would be an assistant special event... if I step back in I have a few hours I can do, but I used to spend hours and hours. I mean, Harvest Moon used to take me January to September to get ready . It’s a big— Well, it got up to 25,000 people and ... People are like, “Oh, you’ve got a wedding for 200?,” I’m like “Nothing scares me, thanks... I used to set up for 25,000!” And all the help down there, but like I say, it would be great to go back, but it won’t be going back to that. Things change. And I think it’s unfortunate that the almighty dollar is the bottom line. Because I’m fortunate enough for that not to be the bottom line for me. I have enough for me and some to share and so I’m not looking for that money making type of event. I just... you know, no. That’s the way it goes, I don’t 15 want to be the sixty-year-old down there, you know. Pfft, Heidi, come on. But I still have a lot of clout at the city so I go with that and I let them do all the hard work and I will help. I’ll always help. But I helped a lot in the past. SS: So do you know Kim Bowsher then? We interviewed her as well, she talked about the Alliance stuff. HH: She is something. She’s one of the people with that vision. I mean, mine’s down here and she’s like this rainbow of vision. And I’ve really enjoyed watching her work, but she comes from a very strong mom, too. Her mom is very, very tough and strong and taught her a lot of things. But yeah, she’s one of our, she’s definitely posse. Such a good girl. She’s an awesome person. SS: So you said that you still go down to your clubs every day. What else do you do? HH: Well, I have a...my son, my 26 year old is trying to get back into the Major League. He’s a pitcher and he was signed by the Brewers out of college and has had some surgeries and things so we deal with that. My mom lives close, none of us moved twenty minutes away from my mom, so we must be really attached to her. She’s eighty, so she has some issues, but I get to do whatever I want. I have a condo in St. George, I have a family home in Idaho, you know. And I’ve got a big family, a big wonderful family. My siblings all get along, we love our babies, our nieces and nephews, so I have... every day is full. I have dogs. I have a big house on 25th Street. You know, just, it’s really a great life. It truly is. It’s fun. 16 SS: It sounds like you have done very well for yourself, it’s very inspirational, as a woman. HH: It’s fun. I just have nothing to complain about. I mean, of course I have my moments. But I don’t take anything too seriously and that’s been a good... that’s come from my businesses. You know, the serious stuff matters, don’t sweat the small stuff. I mean, if I sweat it every time I had to call the refrigeration guy, I’d be in so much trouble. Cause that’s almost every week. I mean, a piece of equipment or... you just have to get to that point where you’re just like, “Oh, well.” That’s how it goes. And just enjoy what you do. Enjoy what you do.