Oral History Program Wendy Buehler Interviewed by Sarah Taylor 21 August 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Wendy Buehler Interviewed by Sarah Taylor 21 August 2019 Copyright © 2021 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Buehler, Wendy, an oral history by Sarah Taylor, 21 August 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Wendy Buehler 21 August 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Wendy Buehler, conducted on August 21, 2019 in her home in Ogden, Utah, by Sarah Taylor. In this interview, Wendy discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Marina Kenner, the video technician, is also present during this interview. ST: This is an oral history interview with Wendy Buehler. It is being conducted at 9:45 a.m. on Wednesday, August 21, 2019. The interviewer is Sarah Taylor and the subject of the interview is Wendy’s time at Weber State University as a student. Also present is Marina Kenner. Thank you for agreeing to meet with us Wendy. WB: Absolutely, I’m thrilled. ST: Alright, so my first question is when and where were you born? WB: I was born in Ogden, in 1966. Yes, that makes me old. Not too old though. ST: Could you tell us bit about your family, I mean growing up? WB: I grew up a lot of different places until I was about 11 or 12 years old and then I moved back to Ogden and I’ve been here ever since. Yeah, I went to elementary before I moved away. I went to junior high. I went to high school here, and then was lucky enough to go to Weber State College before it turned into a university. Then I graduated when it was a university. ST: Okay, wow there’s a lot there. Could you tell us like the names of your parents for the record? WB: Oh my parents’ names are Bob and Janet Gillespie and they also live in Ogden. ST: Okay, and you mentioned going to elementary. What elementary was that? 2 WB: Let’s see, I went to Bonneville Elementary and Hillcrest Elementary and then I moved out of state—several different states before I came back. I lived in Texas and Wyoming and California and moved back when I was in sixth grade. ST: Okay. So when you moved away, do you happen to have any key memories of like the move or your time in other states? WB: Well I have a lot of memories, I don’t know if key memories. I was so young that I was just here and there. I was terribly shy so it was very, very traumatic for me because starting a new school—I think I started a new school like every six months. For a girl who is like a terribly shy, it was very hard. But came back here and was incredibly stable and I just love Ogden. ST: You said you came back here in sixth grade? So did you then go on to junior high? WB: I went to Highland Junior High. Then I went on to Ben Lomond. Graduated in 1984 and now I have kids who have gone through both of those schools. Well, my daughter just barely started Ben Lomond this year, so it’s her first year of high school, so she gets to carry on that and it’s interesting to see the difference all of these years later. How the school structured when I was young—things are so different now. We had counselors, but they were only for, I don’t know, the bad kids. I don’t know who they were for. I never got that experience, so when I was in school there was no guidance really. You just went to school. There wasn’t college and career ready or anything like that. Nobody talked to you about anything and none of my family had gone to college, so I had zero information. Really luckily, Weber State was in Ogden, so I knew about it. I had goals to go 3 through college. I didn’t know how to do that, and I didn’t have help because they didn’t do that back then. I’m so happy now that there’s such good guidance. Sometimes I think it’s a little too directed just because I’ve watched my daughter, and it does cause stress, you know, figuring out that you have to actually be somebody right now, and you have to start thinking about that when you’re in elementary. That’s kind of the push that I’ve seen and not that that’s all bad. It’s actually really fantastic because it gets the creativity and the imagination going. But, I have seen the stress of it as well and—in my opinion, because I’m also a teacher. I don’t think I said that, so I’ve been in the school system—it also leads to kids missing out just a little bit on being kids. Because they’re so focused on what they have to do. ST: So you mentioned definitely a few changes, is there anything else that like was different back when you were attending elementary or high school or junior high? WB: Ogden has always had somewhat of a diverse population. But I noticed . . . my son is 24 now and when he went to kindergarten, even way back then, it was completely different: the diversity and the curriculum and “No Child Left Behind.” I found myself really needing to catch up to that generation because when I went to school, there just wasn’t. You went to school and your teachers did their own thing and every year was different and you just hoped that you got a good teacher. Which I did always. So, I don’t have any bad stories about that. But it’s much different now. I don’t know what else to say about that. ST: That is perfectly fine. What were some of like your memorable high school memories? Do you have any or am I fishing? 4 WB: Oh my gosh, high school was so much fun. I know people have different experiences of high school. Mine was mostly really good. Not that I would ever go back, I know some people would do that. I have no desire to go back but it was a good time. It definitely was more of a social time and a friends time rather than gearing up for what I needed to do to be an adult. That’s the biggest difference I really see now in the high schools compared to my experience. It makes me kind of sad that I didn’t have any of that because the support that my daughter and my son have had and really just almost every single day is an advisory session for them, and I not once in my whole high school experience got any kind of advice or direction, so I lament that still, a little bit because college was hard for me. I dropped out and went back and dropped out and couldn’t decide what was what and didn’t know what courses were what and what was out there in the world. It was tough. But it was good. ST: Kind of on that line of like college, would you say that you were encouraged to pursue an education? WB: Oh definitely, I’m trying to think by who and for sure my family was supportive because nobody had gone to college on either side, my dad’s or my mom’s. So that was a huge goal for me and something that I felt was very important because even back in the ‘80s you knew that you had to go to college. I didn’t know what that looked like, but I knew I was going to do it. Not knowing anything about it, to me, it was a big deal. I felt super important until I got up there and then I was just terrified. You know, it was all good. Everyday still I feel lucky that 5 Weber State is in my hometown because not everyone in the world has a university in their hometown. It’s pretty cool. ST: I’m curious. You described that you went up there and you had challenges. So could you describe like how you decided to attend Weber State? WB: Oh my gosh! Well, I guess after high school, you’re used to going to school. That’s just what you do. You don’t have really any other reference when you’re 18 years old, so I was just like, “Well it’s just an extension of high school.” I mean, back then everyone called Weber State “Harrison High,” which is a terrible name and so condescending. But I didn’t know any better. It was still a college back then and I just looked at all of these classes and I thought, “There’s nothing you could do that would be more important than being a scientist.” And that’s not what I was good at. I was good at art and English, but those weren’t important back then. That is not what made the money, so being good at English and loving art was like, “Well that’s great, Wendy, but you can’t make a living with that.” So, I kind of just went in thinking, “Well I’m just going to try whatever I want.” I didn’t know and I was poor so I went to school using a grant and student loans so having the grants and not really having to pay too much out of my pocket, I didn’t understand that you only needed a certain amount of credit hours. I don’t know. I could have graduated with 200 hours, I have no idea because I took so many different classes, graduated like eight years later. Embarrassing right? So it took a while for me to get in the groove because I thought, “Well, maybe I want to psychology?” And then everyone said, “Oh you don’t want to do psychology because you need a Ph.D. if you’re going to do that.” I just went back 6 and forth on so many different subjects because in high school we didn’t take classes that taught us how to be adults or put us on that track to learning. We just got through school, and passed tests and I didn’t know how to streamline things and how to put things in a row so that it made sense. I was just going to school and you guys are looking at me like, “Oh my gosh, why would you do that?” But I didn’t know back then and I didn’t have anyone to talk to and I would like try the women’s center and they gave me a test on what I was good at, which my test said I would have been a really good race car driver. That wasn’t helpful. So I thought, “Well, I’m just going to keep taking classes.” Again, like I said, in my imagination, the most important person in the world was a scientist and how cool would that be? So, I took Geology and Dr. Pashley was my teacher and he was amazing. Still to this day, I love him so much. He died just a couple of years ago. But he was an amazing professor and he really urged me to continue on and I thought, “I love Geology. I love rocks. I love looking at fault lines. I love these mountains. Yes, I’m going to do that.” So that’s what I did finally. It was an amazing experience. I didn’t get the help that I needed and probably because I didn’t know how to ask the right questions back then. I didn’t know how to get help. Being so few women in Geology, I wonder and I can’t say for sure, but I wonder if the professors sometimes didn’t know what to do with us, or maybe specifically a girl like me who was not just naturally—had that science brain and just was like, “I get it. I get it. Oh I know how to do…” Because I was not good at math, still not great at math. That part was really challenging for me and it’s hard to ask for help. I lament those days 7 too because I always felt not good enough and I didn’t get the help I needed. But I got through it and I got the degree. I never used it. I tried. I actually wanted to go into Anthropology but back then, they didn’t have a major for Anthropology, so that was my minor and I couldn’t go anywhere in that either because there was no one to help. I was just sending out all of these letters to different geological tech companies, to groups that I could go do research with Anthropology and I just couldn’t get a hit and no professors—I didn’t know how to ask for help. Apparently, they didn’t, back then, know how to streamline anything like that for careers and jobs. So yeah. That kind of got left behind. But I love it still and I’m not sad that I did that degree. ST: Alright, I have one question. You said that you jumped a bunch of subjects. You mentioned a few of them. WB: Yes. ST: Is there more? I’m curious. WB: Let’s see. No, like I said, I didn’t even really give English or art a chance really. I didn’t even take classes because I was just really persuaded to not do that. Whatever my circle was or whoever the people around me were that was my influence. I’m trying to think of what other classes. I did take photography for a while because I loved that. But then, I don’t think I ever really even thought seriously about that because I was so determined that I had to do some kind of hard-core subject that would give me a degree that would allow me to make money right away. Yeah, Geology in the end was kind of my only last hope. Dang it. 8 ST: You turned out successfully. You came out alright. WB: I did. I did. I tried for about three or four years to get jobs in that field. Finally, was offered jobs in banking and just because I could get insurance and a stable job, I left everything else and did just that. Then that took me into totally different directions. Then I went back and got my master’s in English and a teaching degree. So went all of the way around the [draws a circle in the air with finger]… ST: I think well rounded. WB: Well rounded. That’s a nice. That’s a very complimentary way to put it. Thank you. ST: Okay, so let’s see. What was Weber State College like when you started? WB: You know, this might not be very fair because I compare my undergraduate to my graduate. I got my graduate degree in 2009 and then my teaching certificate in 2015. So much later. Because I got my undergraduate in 1992. Those two experiences were so completely different. I hesitate to compare them because really my undergraduate, it really was more like high school. Not saying that Weber was like high school, but the classes were kind of the same. Since Weber was so small, I did get more one-on-one help in some of the classes because they were small. But, because your undergraduate is so much more of a full circle than your graduate, you had really hard classes and you had easy classes. Most of them were really good, but some of them were more challenging. Almost back then, my experience was I didn’t really get one-on-one help to help me progress. It was, “Here are the assignments, do it and we’ll see you at the end of the quarter.” My graduate experience were so much different because it was truly 9 what I wanted to do and every single class was a joy to go to. I didn’t ever wake up and think, “Oh my gosh, I have class today.” I was so excited to go all of the time, and for my undergraduate I remember thinking, “You just have to get through this. Just keep going.” Yeah, not quite as enjoyable, but I did it. ST: Which is good. WB: Which is good and I made lifelong friendships really. I shouldn’t say lifelong because I haven’t talked to my friends for like ten years now. But really amazing friendships because in geology there was a really—I wish I could remember….do you have any stats on that? Because I don’t know how you pulled me up or how you found me, but yeah, my graduating class was really small and so that part was kind of cool. But none of my professors were interested in me. ST: Oh no. MK: Is that weird to say? I mean, do you feel like your professors are interested in you? Because in my graduate degree, I did. Maybe that’s not fair to ask you guys. ST: I think it’s a sometimes thing. MK: I kind of feel like Weber State has changed its policy and stuff a lot since . . . when did you go for your bachelor’s degree? WB: Oh in the ‘80s. In ‘85. MK: Yeah and I feel like my professors do really care about me and they’re very personalized with, “Oh come and get help if you need it.” I mean, some professors more than others. 10 WB: Okay because that was my experience during both in the education department and the English department. It was so amazing. ST: I think technology helps too because like e-mail. WB: Absolutely. ST: You can send them e-mails, whereas you couldn’t in the past. WB: You know what, you’re right. You are right. But, yeah. I don’t want to say anything negative about the professors because they were amazing. They really are amazing humans. But as far as teaching, they were not equipped to help a girl like me. Yeah, sorry. That makes me want to cry. ST: Don’t worry. One thing that I was interested in is you mentioned that you were one of the few women in geology. I’m kind of curious as to what that experience was like. WB: Hard. Sorry. Dang. See, who knew I was going to get . . . Can you turn that off now? MK: Yeah. ST: We can pause if you want. WB: Okay. [Video pauses and starts recording again] It was really hard because I’m still an introvert. Even back then in the late ‘80s early ‘90s, I didn’t know how to ask for help and I felt so inadequate. Because I took on a subject that was too hard for me. And I did it anyway. I can edit this. Good. ST: Yeah, don’t worry about it. WB: Okay. ST: If you’re done, I can find a new question. 11 WB: No, it’s okay. This is a great question I really want to talk about it because it’s super important and I don’t want anyone to ever go through that experience that I went through. I felt ignored. Yeah. I felt looked over. I was looked over and that’s okay. It was what it was back then, and today I would have a better idea of how to get help. But I didn’t know back then unfortunately. The women I was surrounded with were amazing. But there were no female professors, not one. All of the professors there were old and that doesn’t sound very good. So that probably will be edited. But, it was a generational thing, I do believe. Dr. Pashley was amazing, but he wasn’t part of the graduating program. The professors I had were really hard core science professors and back then—I think my last year they were just beginning to get into the very beginning of technology. That’s when the branches really started to open up in geology. But that was in my last year, so knowing where to go and to get help, I was just flailing. It was hard and frustrating. I learned an amazing amount of stuff which I will never regret, and I’m so happy still that I went for that degree. But it was hard. It would be interesting to know how many women still are in that degree from my era. I would love to learn about that. For Geology really now that I’m thinking back, I think there was only two other women that actually did geology, and the other women were in like microbiology but sometimes we were all such small departments we kind of did things together. So that part was hard. It’s so funny because just today Dr. Adolph Yonkee. There’s just an article in the paper about him today. He was the brand new professor in my graduating year. I went on field camp with him and now he’s been there—There was an 12 article just today in the paper talking about his 27th year or something. So I was like, “Oh my gosh, that really ages me.” That’s kind of cool though, just on the same day we’re all doing this. Yeah, he was my field professor and he was not very approachable. Sorry, I just have to say all of these things. You can edit them. He was a great man, but as far as helpful, no. Yeah, I have all good things to say about Weber State and my negatives are not really negatives. They’re just personally experience negatives, so I don’t mean to talk bad about anybody. But some experiences are harder than others. ST: Yes, thank you. WB: Yes. ST: Alright, let’s see. What student clubs or organizations were you involved in while at Weber State? WB: Oh my gosh, none. Did they have any back then? Student body maybe? ST: I keep hearing that in most of my interviews so far which is fine. WB: Yeah, see the world wasn’t like it is now. Everything is so inclusive. Like, “Do this! Be a part of that! Learn about this.” No, there was no community at Weber State. There were no community classes; there was no “Go to this class for free because you’d enjoy it.” You know, when I did my graduate classes, my professors invited me to come to classes for free. Not that I could get a grade, but just because I enjoyed it, and I wanted to learn. But that wasn’t the atmosphere back then. The atmosphere was, “We’re doing you a favor. You’re paying us thousands of dollars, but we’re doing you a favor.” You know, it was just a different atmosphere back then for me. 13 ST: I have another similar question. Maybe similar answer. What events did you attend at Weber? WB: I’m trying really hard. I didn’t. You know in my graduate degree, as I was going there, I was noticing all of the things that were going on and I was like, “That’s so cool! That’s a cool club. That’s a cool event.” Because now there’s community events, and you can go to those for free. I do enjoy those now, but back when I was a student I think I was focused on getting that degree. I’d like to say I really wanted to learn, but really what I thought was most important was getting that small piece of paper. I didn’t understand things like, how experience was so important. Kids now in junior high, even if they don’t understand that inside, they at least understand intellectually that you have to have experience. You can’t just have a degree and then go get a job. It’s both the experience and the degree. But, I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t know that back then. ST: Which is fine. WB: Yeah. ST: Alright, you kind of went over this a bit already, but what were some of the challenges that you faced while obtaining your degree? WB: Yeah, just really getting the help that I needed and really I don’t want to lay that on the teachers all of the way because that’s a personal responsibility thing. But I didn’t have enough tools to even bring up the questions. I don’t know if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? ST: I think it does make sense, yes. 14 WB: Yeah, I mean, answers are amazing, but you can’t get those answers until you know what the questions are. Back then, I was just doing everything I was told to do. I wasn’t really thinking because in college, you have so much to do, so I was just focused on completing everything I needed to do and not worrying about the bigger picture. I think nowadays, teachers may not have those tools still, but they have the atmosphere, the environment around teachers are such that, that’s more in the air these days. Not that everyone gets help. I’m a teacher, I see that and I know what that world looks like now. Unfortunately, at least in the elementary school they call students, perhaps like I was, waiting to fail. So that means, dang, there are kids out there that don’t quite fit in and because classes are so gigantic and everyone needs school that we need to focus on the majority. So the kids on this end, and the kids on this end are collateral damage, which is the kids up here are going to be okay because they have tools and they are doing well. But the kids down here, you just have to hope that sometime in life they get the help because teachers don’t have resources to spend on them. That’s kind of how I felt like my time at Weber State was. I just was, with everything that I could, helping myself [mimes pulling herself up on a rope]. So I love that there’s that kind of help nowadays. ST: Okay. Thank you. WB: Yeah, absolutely. ST: Alright, the next question you might have already hit on it a bit. WB: I know see I’m talking, but you said I could ramble. 15 ST: Oh no, it’s good. I’m glad. I’m just asking the questions to see if you have anything more to add. WB: No that’s good. ST: Yeah, it says, “What mentors or resources did you have available to you in your program and career?” WB: Yeah, I really didn’t. The only thing I knew how to do was ask professors for help. I think with my male professors, I was not brave enough to do that. Dr. Conover was the head of the anthropology department and I loved her. She was amazing. She was the one professor that even though she didn’t really take one-on-one time with me, for my papers rather than say, “Oh you got an A or a B,” she would actually give me feedback and I know that sounds strange because professors do that all of the time now. But, that wasn’t the case back then, and just getting that feedback from her was huge for me. I mean, it gave me energy and inspiration to just know that I could do something. Just that little inspiration really, really helped me through. ST: Great. So the other question I have—and you kind of talked a bit about this. It’s about professors and who are your favorite professors. I think you mentioned two so far. Were there anymore? WB: Let’s see. Are we talking undergraduate here? Mostly? ST: If you want to throw in graduate, I think that would be fine. WB: Because I’m trying to think. Dr. Pashley, he was undergraduate. Dr. Conover. I wish I could give more, but no. MK: What about your graduate degree? 16 WB: My graduate degree . . . Every single one of them. Really truly honestly. I could give you a list if you want a list. But, Doctors Tingey—they were husband and wife and he is actually the one who started the English program and I was among the very first master’s English program. I feel so lucky I got into that. Dr. Bonnie Haufland is just amazing. She’s still up there. Dr. Tingey—she just passed away and he retired, gosh, like five years ago now. But they were amazing. The whole education program is just amazing and the English program is fabulous too. Yeah, everything all good for English and education. Awesome, awesome programs and super, super helpful. You know I was much older, so I was able to ask more questions and everyone took time for me and pushed me where I needed to go and helped me out. I got everything I wanted out of both of them. I mean huge changes took place, but I think just being young and not knowing what I was doing or where I could go, that was way more on me than what anything had to do with Weber State. So when I talk about professors or the program negatively, most of it I take all of that responsibility myself. But I do think more could have been done about that. ST: Alright, so we kind of described your undergraduate and you kind of got a bit into your graduate. I’m kind of curious about the gap in between. So when did you graduate from Weber State . . . was it “college” still back then? WB: No, I was so happy because I was like, “I do not want to graduate under the college. I want it to be a university on my diploma.” I was happy, so I remember that, so it was a university. I graduated in 1992. MK: We became a university in ‘91 so… 17 WB: Okay, yeah, ‘92. Thank you. MK: You’re welcome. WB: So 1992 I graduated. ST: Okay and what did you do after that? WB: After that, I think I just kept my job that I had all through college. Then that year after I graduated, I was modeling and then I got an offer through modeling— weird huh? To go do commercial real-estate and banking. It was a good job, it was steady money with benefits which was hard, still hard—it’s always hard right? Getting a good job with benefits. So I gave up geology, gave up anthropology, and just went into banking. I did that for several years and then got pregnant with my first baby and I was working in Salt Lake. Then I had all of my leave, and I was just horrified that I had to go back and work. Because in Salt Lake, you know, that adds an extra two hours with rush hour back then before all of the pre-done nice highway. I was spending 12-13 hours away from my baby and I couldn’t do that. So I quit my job, started my own business, and it’s still what I’m doing today. Became a personal trainer. I had my personal training business now for 25 years. But when my kids were younger, and there’s a big gap between my son and my daughter, so my daughter is just barely in high school now. But when she was young—I volunteered in the education for 20 years now. I went back, because I thought, “Maybe I want to teach.” So I went back, got my master’s in English because I thought, “I really want to write.” I went back and got my teaching certificate and then, once in the schools, I realized my passion for 18 teaching is to teach those waiting-to-fail kids. All of the kids that kind of get swept under. But once I started in the school districts, I realized those kids I couldn’t really help because the school district is not set up that way. For me, that’s really hard, and I’m not quite sure what to do with that still. So I’m back in personal training. Well, I never quit really, but I realized I don’t want to do teaching full-time. I still have a goal to teach, and I’m not sure what that looks like right now. For me, I’ve just found that I’m fighting myself all of the time. I still have a goal to teach and I’m not sure what that looks like right now. Maybe up at the college, maybe in the high school. My certificate is elementary and right now . . . I can say that I’m probably not going to do that anymore. But I will teach, I’m just not sure what that looks like right now. ST: Okay, I have one question—well I have a few actually if I’m being honest. First off, you said that like you had like a personal training business. Is there like a name for that? WB: Yeah, it’s Naturally Fit Personal Training Incorporated. ST: I’m very curious to hear what your experience has been as like a female business owner? Does that question make sense? WB: Yes. It’s been great actually. I’d like to give you some instances where I’ve been looked over as a female, but I kind of can’t. It’s just been really positive for me. I can’t think of any really real challenges that have won, so to speak. I’ve been able to push through everything that I’ve needed to. Which is very satisfying because you know like I said in school, that was not the case. It was hard. And probably part of that helped me learn how to ask the questions like I can now. I 19 can know where to look when I need help for business because you’re in it alone so learning how to get that help and support is crucial. You know really part of having my own business really taught me about giving back, as weird as that sounds. I didn’t understand the charitable contribution thing until I had my own business and then I realized what charity was all about. I just hadn’t had any experience like that growing up. That was not in my world and so opening my business and creating all of that and how important it is to connect with people in your community. Charity, volunteering your time and helping out others and serving your community opens up your own world to bigger and better things. That’s probably been one of the top five lessons of really having my own business. ST: I’m curious as to how you got started. What were some of like the challenges, or what was that like? Does that make sense? WB: Yes. Well, I think I was young enough and brave enough that I didn’t even think about that. Some might call that stupidity. I was naive and hopeful and luckily it worked out for me. Because I have to say, being a personal trainer, I worked at it for a good two years before I quit my job. But I look back now and think, “That could have really not worked out for you.” Luckily it did though because I was just ready. I didn’t have anything in place. I had zero clients. I had a business license and I thought that was good enough, so I just quit my job. Started my business and I still to this day don’t know how, but it worked. I joined the Chamber of Commerce, I joined a whole lot of things that got me in the community and, somehow, I must have been in the perfect place at the perfect time because I 20 marketed myself well enough that I was able to support myself. The challenges I had were met with help with every step of the way; I must say I was very lucky that way. ST: Do you have any like specific challenges that stick out in your mind? WB: Yes, actually. I was in business for a couple of years before I realized, “I need to learn how to grow my business.” This is something somebody should do before they ever start thinking about owning . . . but I had never done a business plan. I didn’t even know what it was. So I realized I needed to do that. Gal, see you’re bringing back all of these memories. I saw an ad, I can’t remember where I saw it. Maybe in the newspaper. Something about starting your own business at Weber State, and it was this free offering—Or maybe through the Chamber. Maybe that’s where I saw it—So I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is so cool.” I wish I could remember the lady’s name that was up there because I think she’s still there, but she really helped me like figure out what a business plan even was and why I needed it and how to go about it. That was a big challenge. That was one of my biggest learning curves. That was amazing and she helped me every step of the way, for free. It was awesome. ST: Alright, you also mention that you had some kids. Can we get like their names? WB: Yes, my son, his name is Sage. He’s 24. And my daughter is Emerson, and she is 15. MK: That’s a big age. WB: Gosh I know. This is her third day of high school and it’s very exciting. 21 ST: I think my other question is, could we get years for the record? When did you go back to Weber State University for the graduate program? WB: For the graduate . . . I probably went back in 2006. Got my graduate degree in 2009 because I was not rushing. Then decided to get my teaching certificate. So I got my master’s—Did I tell you my . . . ST: I have master’s 2006–2009. Teacher . . . graduated 2015? WB: Yeah. So I must have went back in 2012. ST: We can always go back and edit if you realize it. If you’re like, “Agh, wrong year.” WB: Yeah, this might be wrong. I’ll look those up for you. Make sure those are right. It’s close though. ST: Thank you. Alright. You kind of touched on the difference between your undergraduate and like graduate experience. I’m wondering if there’s more to add there? WB: Oh my gosh, there could be, yes. So much. I can say the two are probably so different, mostly because of maturity and age. Really. And the programs. Times are different, so that all factored in. But I think for my graduate, I was just so happy to go back and felt so privileged that I had the ability to do that. I mean, I can drive ten minutes and go to school. I didn’t have to drive an hour to go to the U or an hour this way to go to Utah State. Just really a blessing to have Weber State right here, and to have programs available to better yourself, whether it be professionally or personally or just something you do for a hobby. The difference between then and now is just so different. So vast. I mean, Weber State now really is part of the community, whereas, back then, it was kind of an island to 22 itself. Not that it didn’t want to be part of the community. I just don’t think we had the technology or the capability or maybe the outreach to do that. The difference for me really has been all of those things. But just for me persevering was probably just maturity and the space in my life where I was at. I had the ability to do that, which was really a blessing. ST: You said that like it’s more involved in the community now, so how would you say that like that’s changed? Am I making sense? WB: Yes, back then, my experience was you had your schedule, you did your classes, you failed or you passed, and you moved along. There wasn’t anything bigger. I guess in that sense, for me, it was like high school. You just had to do it. Now I look at it more as Weber State gives you such opportunities. I mean, they have programs for elementary kids. The science department where you can go up for a day and see what physics is like. You can go up to the observatory and look at the stars and see what they have up there. As a child, they have family events, and they have community programs that you can sign up for as a teenager or as a person who’s not even going to college. But just wants to better themselves that way. Back when I was doing my undergraduate, as far as I know, they didn’t have anything like that. It was literally just school. It wasn’t anything bigger, I mean, the science department didn’t have projects that you could be a part of if you were in the Geology department. It wasn’t anything bigger than just going to class. It’s like you could have had programs that you went to out on campus, you could have had programs that you went to within the city to be a geology 23 community. I don’t know what it’s like now up there, so I can’t speak to that. I don’t know what the programs are like, maybe they’re the same. But my feeling was when I was undergraduate was I just had to go through class and get through it. It was like elementary or junior high or high school. There was no differentiating between this is my life and this is school because I didn’t know how to make that bigger. It was just school and then in my graduate program, there’s just a lot of opportunities. Like the secretary would send out things every quarter, “We need someone to go do this. We need someone to go do this. We need someone down in Southern Utah or are you interested in this?” So just a lot more opportunity. ST: Alright, I think you’ve mentioned this, but I kind of want to state it for the record. It says, “What degrees and certifications do you have?” WB: Oh okay, Bachelor’s of Science, master’s, teaching certificate, and a personal training certificate, and Pilates. ST: Also, what positions have you held in your career? WB: Oh gosh, like do you want to know the jobs that I’ve had? Or? ST: That is a good point. Whatever you feel comfortable telling us. WB: I have been a teacher. I have been a small business owner for 24 years and that’s basically what I’ve been doing for the last two decades. Mostly as personal training, small business. I am on the board of directors for the Ogden Nature Center. But, no more important than that, all of those things. ST: I think they’re important. WB: Well… I don’t have a full on resume to say… 24 ST: Which is fine. Where did you teach at? WB: Let’s see, I have taught at Taylor Canyon, James Madison, Horace Mann. MK: You said that you mostly volunteer with that teaching. What was that kind of like? WB: I volunteered from the time my son started. So . . . I’ve been a volunteer since 2000. I volunteer just in the classroom. I’ve been an AmeriCorps volunteer. I’ve been part of community council, PTA. I was an emergency substitute teacher for a year at Horrace Mann. I did my student teaching through Ogden City School District. Those are all really good programs. I think part of my not wanting to teach has to do with very strict curriculum that Ogden City follows that allows for personal teacher creativity, but not so much. That got very monotonous, right? Because literally, we taught the same thing day after day the entire year. As much as I love kiddos, that part was really hard for me. That’s not very nice to say, but that was really hard for me. But amazing. I know how hard teachers have it and I know change is slow and I think that was the hard part for me because we have the knowledge, we have the technology, we have the research. It’s just the red tape and getting things implemented is a chain, a process that takes so many years. Change is slow and hard and I respect that. But it’s frustrating at the same time when you have to let kiddos slip through the cracks. ST: I was going to ask a question, you might have already answered it. My question was asking about challenges that you faced as a teacher. You might have gone into that. Is there anything more you want to add? WB: I can say that the teaching profession has one of the most solid beautiful supportive communities that I’ve ever been a part of. That part, I would go back 25 to it in a heartbeat. But the disconnect between on the ground work—you know, kind of like war—in the trenches, in the classrooms, as opposed to the administration and the red tape saying, “This is what’s showing progress.” We have all of these statistics, but statistics can be misleading, so I think the hardest part for me was the slow change and saying, “But we have this research. We have this technology. Why can’t I do it?” “Well because that’s not in the program.” So that part was probably the hardest for me. ST: Alright. Thank you. One thing that you mentioned that I’m curious about, you mentioned being part of the Nature Center. How was your experience with that? WB: Oh my gosh! That is probably one of my passions for sure. I became involved with the Nature Center when I first started my business because when you start a business you have to learn how to market, and you have to learn how to collaborate. The Nature Center was one of those places that was really not a Nature Center back then. It was just a little tiny place where people took their animals they didn’t want. That’s what the Nature Center was. It was the place that Ogden City had decided to set aside, but it wasn’t really much of anything yet. When I started volunteering there, they had some community classes. They were doing just a little bit, but they didn’t have an education program back then like they do now. I don’t know if you are familiar with the education program or the Nature Center at all. ST: I think it’s the back of a childhood memory but I can’t access it. WB: Yeah! I can talk about Nature Center all day long. We have over 150 acres and we started out with educational programs. It’s like nature; it’s not just for fun 26 anymore. Let’s teach people how important the earth is and how sustaining the earth and how important that is. Now, today, we’re a huge part of the education community. I mean, we are booked solid on field trips usually like by the first of the year. So if you want to be part of our field trip program, you have to schedule that in now. We have curriculum that we have to follow in Utah now. I mean Nature Center is part of that now. We have an education director who we’ve had for—oh gosh, Stephanie don’t kill me—over ten years. Long time. And she’s amazing. Mary the executive director has been there for over 20 years. I have been on the board. This is my last year. You get six years to be on the board. You get two terms if you want to. Three years each. This is my last term on the Nature Center. Hopefully I can go back in a couple of years and we will see if they take me. But it’s a great experience. We’re just part of the community now. Part of the education scene so that part has been really fun kind of connecting teachers with the Nature Center and collaborating with that. ST: When did you become involved with the Nature Center? Do you remember the year? WB: I’ve been on the board since 2012. And I’ve volunteered at the Nature Center since probably 1997. That’s so long ago. ST: My next question is what sort of challenges or memorable experiences did you have with the Nature Center? WB: Oh my gosh. ST: That’s a big question, I’m sorry. 27 WB: Yeah, I can’t think of any challenges right now, I’ll get back to you then. But Nature Center really . . . I think of it just as another place as really bringing our community together. Just like Weber State has been a part of that. It’s so amazing. I’ve always loved Ogden. But Ogden now is we’re all like one. We have the trail systems. We have Weber State who does all kinds of community stuff. We have places like the Nature Center and the Treehouse Museum and all of those clubs. I mean, we have technology so we are literally all connected so Ogden is just really utilized that all. It’s really exciting to see how interconnected we can all be and all help each other and grow. So, I love that. That’s really amazing. ST: Good. My next question is how did you balance responsibilities from like the workplace, the home, and like everything else you were doing? WB: Well, I tell you that’s why I went into my own business so that I could have the luxury of raising my child and being home with them after they got home from school. The way I did that was I scheduled all of my appointments while my children were in school and then every once in a while I would have one client that would be after school, but it was an hour and I could manage that. Especially when they were older. That was a huge priority for me. I really needed to be with my children. I get that not everyone wants to do that and not everyone can do that, and I absolutely respect that, so I have no judgement. It’s just that was my path and that’s what I needed. That was important to me, and I made it work. Having my own business works really good for me because I like freedom in a 28 job. I think the world is becoming a lot freer. In the way workplace goes. In a lot of professions, but I kind of like being my own boss. ST: Alright, so I think my next question is what advice would you give to students or women kind of starting out? WB: Oh my gosh! Believe in what you love. Believe in what you love. Believe in what you love. Believe in what you love. Really. Keep doing what you like and find your people. Find your peoples. Yeah, I can’t say what I would have done because that changes everybody’s life course, you know, but I have absolutely no regrets. What an amazing experience I have but what I learned and I’m so happy to be as old as I am, otherwise I wouldn’t have that experience. But experience is amazing, good and bad because everyone goes through hard difficult times. Everyone in this whole entire world, and those are the times that really show us who we are. Even if they should have never happened, could have never happened, everything that I went through brought me to this place that I am now. I have nothing negative to say about that because it was all important, and it was all timely, and it all happened just when it needed to happen that way. But what I would say now is find those people that can help you. Find those people that support you and always, always, always do what you’re good at. ST: That’s good advice, thank you. My next question is like looking back, how did attending Weber State help you in your career field? WB: You know what, that is such a great question. You would think that there would be nothing because it’s Geology. But really, it doesn’t even matter what the 29 subject was. Just going to school teaches you perseverance, grit, responsibility, how to get along with others, how to find your voice, how to do what you think you can’t do, and how to learn what you think you already know better. It helped me in so many ways, in all of those ways. ST: Thank you. Alright, the next one, you might have already kind of answered this. WB: Sorry, I’m just chatty. ST: Do not apologize, it’s great! How have you stayed connected with Weber since graduating? WB: Oh my gosh! I feel like I’m a lifelong student. Yes, definitely. I’m a little bit embarrassed to say that but I really think I am one of those people that are lifelong students. Because I still take the community classes. I don’t need any credits, but I still take the community classes, just because I love learning and it’s right here in Ogden. I’d be silly not take those things. So yes, I’m a lifelong student. ST: Thank you. One that I have—it’s kind of jumping back a bit. WB: Okay. That’s fine. ST: But I’m really curious. When you were a young girl, who were some of the women that you looked up to as role models? WB: Oh man, that’s a hard question. I think as a little girl I was just so busy trying to survive, that I don’t know. I can’t even say that that I knew any. My world was very small. 30 ST: Which is a perfectly fine answer. Alright, this one is kind of an open-ended one that I’ve thrown in. What memories do you have of significant historical events that took place during your lifetime? There might be nothing . . . WB: Oh that’s such a cool question. Historic events. Let’s see . . . I remember landing on the moon. I was three years old. That’s the earliest memory I think because my mom took me outside and we stood on the porch and we looked up and I could not figure out what she was talking about but I knew it was cool. That’s the coolest event. Probably the saddest event that is just common now was Columbine. To me, that’s historic because it’s such a sad reality in our world right now. Let’s see . . . 1976 was a cool year because that was, you know, the ‘76 year. The year America became . . . I remember I was back in Utah that year because I was in Hooper. Oh my gosh, you’re taking me way back. California, Utah, Texas, Utah, Wyoming, Utah, Texas. So what was another year? Oh, the Olympics. Yeah. ST: What do you remember about those? WB: I got to do a lot of stuff in the Olympics. Not participate, but I got to go to a lot of things. I got to go to the opening ceremony. I got to go to the events and that was life changing. It was really an amazing experience. Gosh, I need a timeline in front of me to go, “Oh yeah, I remember that.” ST: This is almost like a question you need to do research for. WB: I know, because it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I’m 53, there’s been a lot of things happening.” But I can’t even think of anything else right now. ST: That’s alright, that’s alright. [To Marina] Do you have any other questions? 31 MK: I just want to know if you had any mentors in your career field or with the Ogden Nature Center? Or at least stood out to you. WB: [Phone is ringing] Let me just get that. [Video ends and picks up again.] Everyone at Nature Center is a mentor for me. They are just amazing humans. They’ve helped me personally, professionally. They are just good humans. I’ve just been lucky in life. There’s a lot of good, and sometimes mentors come and go. I’ve had several and I even take that back to Weber State in my graduate programs. The professors there were just so amazing and they were willing to help in any way that they can. It’s nice to be able to live here and say, “I know who I could go ask.” Or, “I know who I could go talk to for that.” Yeah, it’s like a large pool, you know just being able to say, “I know who to go to for that.” And that took me a long time to understand how to do. Which is so weird to say, you know, how do you learn how to ask people in your life for help and get help from them. Because that was nothing I ever had really growing up, so as an adult, learning that has just been huge in my life. All of the people that I have been in contact with who have been professors or people who have known more than I am, or who have been in control of other things, have all been just amazing humans. I feel like I’m lucky to say I have lots of people I could go to. I don’t know if you wanted names specifically . . .? MK: No that works. Whatever you think is a good answer. WB: Yeah. ST: There was one question that I realized I missed. So you mentioned children, have you ever been married? 32 WB: Yes. ST: Can we get his name? WB: Steven Parton. ST: Alright thank you. [To Marina] Do you have any others before I ask? MK: Nope. ST: Alright, we’re approaching the end. This is probably good because I think we are getting close to your time you have to be done. WB: Holy Cow, this has been nice. ST: Yeah, time flies. WB: It does, holy cow. ST: Yeah, so first off, before I ask the final question, do you have any other memorable stories that you would like to share? WB: Let’s see, probably nothing specific. I guess I didn’t say a ton of favorable things on my undergraduate program, and I don’t want to sound negative on that. So what I will say is that the friendships that I had and the people that I worked with, and the field camp that I went on, I learned so much and I bonded with so many people and what an amazing program that was. Because that was a summer-long field program, I can’t remember. But, yeah, that was just an amazing opportunity way back then. I’m curious to know what those programs look like now. Because if it was amazing back then, I can’t even imagine what they look like now and just reading about Dr. Yonkee and the stuff they’re doing in the field it’s like, “That’s what he did with us.” I can’t imagine everything that they’ve 33 mapped now, and the stuff that they’ve put in place since I’ve been gone. That would be really exciting to see. ST: Alright, thank you. Our final question is how do you think women receiving the right to vote, shaped or influenced history, your community, and you personally? WB: Oh my gosh! Can we just say that women matter? Sheesh, yeah. I don’t know what else there is to say. I mean, women get to vote. Who would ever thought that they never had that right and why? I think it’s great today that we can say out loud, “Why?” Well, we know why. We can look back and look at that. But that’s a whole other topic, but women finally are being allowed to show their strength, their intelligence, and their equality. That is bigger than anything. To look back and to know that that was a thing and that still is a thing that women are undermined and left out. It’s hard to imagine because back in the ‘80s the culture was the high life. We were good economically. We thought that race divisions, we were equal. We got past that, and in the climate of today, we realize that we didn’t. We haven’t. To be able to say all of those things out loud and to fight for those things is huge and big and I’m glad that we’re saying it, and I want to keep saying it. Yeah, it’ll be nice to think of a time when everything will be equal and to think back on a time when I was like in my twenties and I thought everything was equal. How much I didn’t know then. History is goes round and round, right? As historians, you guys know that. It’s all a circle and so hopefully that circle gets bigger and we can extend and keep extending. Do you agree? MK: Yeah. ST: Yes. 34 WB: Yeah. We could talk politics and that is scary. But yeah, I’d like to think today we are in a much better place to show our voice, our strength, and not be afraid to show who we are.